Episode 28

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Published on:

7th Jul 2025

Jennifer Cain Birkmose - #28 - July 6, 2025

Aging with Independence and Innovation: Jennifer Cain Birkmose on the Future of Senior Care

In this episode of the Neurostimulation Podcast, host Michael Passmore discusses senior care innovations with guest Jennifer Cain Birkmose. Jennifer, a pioneering entrepreneur and global health leader, co-founded Viva Valet, a concierge-style service aimed at helping seniors live independently at home for as long as possible. The platform offers comprehensive services including in-home adjustments, technology integration, and safety checks. The episode touches on Jennifer’s methodologies, such as using ethnographic research and involving seniors in beta testing, to ensure user-friendly design. Additionally, Jennifer shares insights from her role as a UN advisor on aging and technology and emphasizes the importance of respect, agency, and social connections in senior care. The conversation concludes with a vision for the future of aging, highlighting the expected societal shifts as the senior population grows.

Check out Jennifer's senior's care & support services at Viva Valet https://www.vivavalet.com

00:00 Introduction to the Neurostimulation Podcast

01:38 Meet Jennifer Cain Birkmose: Innovator in Senior Services

04:26 The Viva Valet Platform: Revolutionizing Senior Independence

06:25 Challenges and Solutions in Senior Care

11:16 User Experience and Technology Integration

27:00 Combating Fraud and Ensuring Safety for Seniors

33:55 Global Advocacy and Future Directions

38:24 Understanding Customer Needs and Bridging Gaps

38:46 Resources and Initiatives at Viva Valet

39:43 Global Aging and Cultural Commonalities

40:24 The Importance of Agency and Independence

44:04 Aging with Reverence and Play

45:19 Improv and Its Impact on Older Adults

54:48 Future Predictions for Aging by 2035

01:01:55 Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

01:08:13 Podcast Outro and Call to Action

Transcript
Mike:

Welcome to the Neurostimulation Podcast.

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I'm Michael Passmore, clinical

associate professor in the department

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of psychiatry at the University of

British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada.

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The Neurostimulation podcast is about

exploring the fascinating world of

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neuroscience in general and clinical

neurostimulation in particular.

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We talk about how it works, the research

behind it, and how that research is

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being translated into treatments that

can improve health and wellbeing.

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So whether you are a healthcare

professional, a researcher, a student, or

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someone who's really interested in how the

brain works and what we can do to help it

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to work better, this podcast is for you.

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My mission is to make the

science accessible, inspiring,

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and relevant to your life.

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This podcast is separate from my

clinical and academic roles, and is

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part of my personal effort to bring

neuroscience education to the general

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public accordingly, I would like to

emphasize that the information shared

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here is intended for educational

purposes only and is not intended

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as medical advice or a substitute

for professional medical guidance.

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Always consult with your healthcare

provider to discuss your specific

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health needs and treatment options.

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By listening to or watching this

podcast, you acknowledge and agree

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that any decisions related to your

healthcare are your own responsibility

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and should be made in consultation

with a qualified health professional.

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Today, I'm really excited to

talk to Jennifer Cain Birkmose.

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Jennifer is a fascinating, innovative,

and pioneering entrepreneur who has

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co-founded a business that offers

concierge style senior services in

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order to help seniors stay living at

home independently as long as possible.

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Her company, VivaValet.com

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offers all kinds of integrations

for helping to keep seniors home

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longer and safer, such as in-home

adjustments for customizing home

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occupational therapy setups.

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For example, to enhance kitchen

safety and bathroom safety

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renovation type adjustments.

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But importantly, Jennifer's company

also helps to integrate technology

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into seniors' lives in a way

that's accessible and effective.

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So we had a really interesting

conversation about what her firm offers

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in terms of helping to keep seniors at

home safely and for as long as possible

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to optimize their independence, their

autonomy, and their self-determination,

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and how her expertise in disparate

areas like improv comedy has been

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also instrumental in terms of going

into settings like assisted living

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facilities and long-term care facilities

in order to help improve the lives

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of seniors who may be suffering from

mood problems or loneliness problems,

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and having these kinds of strategies

iImplemented in those facilities has

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really been instrumental in terms of

helping to foster a sense of meaning and

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community for those people later in life.

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It was a great conversation.

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We talked also about how Jennifer's

been involved at the level of the

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United Nations in terms of advocating

and promoting seniors health.

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So I hope that you'll stay tuned.

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I think you're really gonna

enjoy this conversation.

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Welcome back to the

Neurostimulation podcast.

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Today's guest is a powerhouse of

purpose, service and reinvention.

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Jennifer Cain Birkmose is a global health

leader, an entrepreneur, a technologist, a

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UN advisor, and a trained improv comedian.

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All of that in one dynamic human being.

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Her work spans continents and causes

from transforming the aging experience

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through co-designed technology

to holding a board position with

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medicines for malaria venture.

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Jennifer is also the director of improv

at Boutique Theater in Switzerland,

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where she brings humor and humanity

into both creative and corporate spaces.

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She and her co-founder are

revolutionizing aging through a tech

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platform that supports older adults,

whom she calls olders, to live

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independently at home for longer.

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So get ready for an energizing,

insightful conversation about

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purpose-driven innovation, aging

with dignity, and the power of Yes.

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Jennifer, welcome to the show.

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Thanks so much for being here.

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Jennifer: Michael, I am so

honored to be on your show.

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Thank you so much for inviting me.

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I am excited for our conversation today.

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I think we're gonna have a good one.

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Mike: Definitely, absolutely.

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Maybe we can start by you introducing

yourself to the audience here and

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perhaps starting off by telling us about

this really interesting tech platform

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that you're building for optimizing

the aging experience and yeah, I'm

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really interested to hear about it.

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Jennifer: Absolutely.

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So first of all, thank you for

the very generous introduction.

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That was really lovely.

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And yes, all of those things are true.

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That's all things that I'm doing

either currently and many of them

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we'll say juggling, like in a circus,

we're juggling all those balls.

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One of the balls, and probably the biggest

ball of all of them is this co-founder

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relationship I have around the company

that's called Viva Valet, which as

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you mentioned, is a tech platform for

olders to access services that they can

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utilize to live at home independently.

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I think the easiest analogy is

it's like Expedia for older people.

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And that it's an Expedia type of platform

that you can use to find everything

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that you need in order to stay at home.

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So what we've I think Michael, very

often in the world of entrepreneurship,

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I, like every other entrepreneur, is

in the game to do something different

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because I'm trying to solve a problem

that I'm very passionate about.

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And usually those problems are my own.

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Those, I think the more passionate you

are about it, it's usually something that

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you're personally feeling the pain from.

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Or the need to overcome and come up

with some type of innovative solution.

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So that's exactly what the case is with

me and my co-founder around aging and

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age tech, is that we are living a great

distance away from our loved ones who

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are aging, wishing that we could do more,

knowing that we are what we call stuck

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in the sandwich generation, raising kids,

trying to launch them into the world.

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Killing it in our careers and also having

older adults that we need to care for.

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So we needed to come up with options

that we could utilize from a afar

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and also that our olders could

do to live at home independently.

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Mike: Yeah.

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That's incredible.

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I, it's such an interesting and

fascinating, excellent idea in terms

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of just having it as a platform that

someone can relate to, like Expedia

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and allowing the support and the

personalization with, it sounds like an

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a la carte sort of system where people

can pick and choose in terms of what

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they need in their particular situation.

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Can you explain a little bit more about

how that works, that particular platform?

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Jennifer: Absolutely.

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I like that you call that a la carte

because it's both a la carte and it's

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also, I would say, concierge style in that

let's say you or your loved ones wanted

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to come up with a kind of package that

would enable services to live at home.

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So let's say your loved one,

sorry, my papers are blowing away.

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Your loved one lost

their ability to drive.

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Very often that's what we see

above the age of 75, for example,

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is loved ones start to lose

their abilities to, to drive.

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So they still need to move around.

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They still have doctor's appointments

and they still have life to live.

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So one of those things

is rides that we offer.

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We also offer in-home cleaning.

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We offer in-home tech support.

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So a lot of tech training and

interestingly enough, that's our

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fastest growing vertical where

older are really needing to get a.

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Be a part of technology to

access banking access, healthcare

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records, those kinds of things.

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We also do in-home safety

modifications and handyman

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services, those type of things.

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And then lastly, food delivery.

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That's basically tailored to the

individual needs of that user.

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So we're doing that, and that's space

currently in Illinois, in the United

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States, we're expanding that business

out to be a concierge service, which

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is something like if you call in,

it's a monthly kind of membership

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where you could call in and say.

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I often, the scenario of myself,

of my loved one has had a fall.

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They've been having surgery, they're

gonna, they're coming outta the hospital.

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I need help and I don't

actually know what I need.

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I don't know where to find it.

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I don't know who to ask and

I don't know who to trust.

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So in those circumstances, that is

where we shine brightly, both in

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the concierge service and also in

our service-based business that we

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currently have running in Illinois.

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Because in order for a company to

be listed on our platform, they have

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to pass some really high hurdles

around trust because that's actually

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another huge part of what we've.

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Come to learn in the process of

building this company for olders is

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that they'd like to have support and

many of them are saying, no, thank you.

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But there comes a point where

they know that they must have it.

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The number one currency of whether you're

going to be able to have a sustain,

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sustainable business with holder folks is

whether you're going to have trust or not.

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And that's, if you're selling it to the

adult children or if you're selling it to

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the olders themselves, you have to wait

to, you have to show a way of showing

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your work of how are they trustworthy.

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So we have these metrics.

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We have criminal background checks

that we're doing, and all of our

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providers, they have to take out

additional insurance packages.

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They have to go through a kind

of academy of how to care for

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older and how to serve olders.

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They take a written test and they

take practical exams in order to get.

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Qualify to be a part of our business.

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And once they're actually serving

customers, we have our eyes on them.

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So they have to check in with us.

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They have to check out.

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We call our users immediately

as soon as they're finished.

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We can't have body cams inside the

homes for privacy, but we have all

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these check in and checkout procedures.

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So you have this end-to-end trusted

service, which is the answer to the

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call that we hear in a lot of senior

services, because quite frankly,

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Michael and I'm sure you've heard

this in the work done, there's a lot

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of fraud committed against older.

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There's a lot of abuse

committed against older.

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So this is where we as a series of values

are really strongly, trying to find

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ways, hard wiring to avoid those things.

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Mike: Yeah, that's amazing.

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It's really important for sure, and

I think particularly what resonates

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'cause yeah, I've worked with seniors

for over 20 years now and I think a big

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piece of it and their families as well.

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A big piece of it is that because

it can be so overwhelming, as you

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say, for there to be that initial

consultation service where you know,

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your expertise can help to guide the

questions that prospective clients are

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even asking in terms of what would you

recommend in this kind of situation?

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I'm sure that's extremely valuable because

it's so overwhelming and people don't

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really understand what would be even

the first steps into how to navigate

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all the complexity of the system.

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Jennifer: All the

complexity of the system.

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I come from a healthcare family myself.

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I have very prominent

physicians in my family.

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I've, been in all these different kinds

of layers of healthcare systems and

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creating access and in drug development.

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And even I get lost and

even my family gets lost.

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And I say that not to say

we're fancy, it's that.

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Gosh, we come from a tradition of

not just understanding the healthcare

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system, but being active, part of

leading, creating some of the regulations

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for it, delivering healthcare.

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We get lost and when our loved

ones are going through it,

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they're getting lost as well.

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So it's with great compassion and passion

I have is to reach in and help those

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who need that support in those moments.

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And often I get asked things

like, I need to find a transport

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service I need to find.

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Even just an an intermediate step down

service or an assisted living type of

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service, or I need a skilled nursing

intermediary, skilled nursing facility

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between hospitalization and going home.

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How do I find that?

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So we're able to actually do those kinds

of safety checks, do the background

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checks, do that for them, and then come

up solu with solutions and then try

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to get them in those kinds of options.

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So I find that really is helping

a lot of people that are in

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a moment of crisis when you.

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You don't necessarily have your thinking

mind on, this is a neuroscience podcast,

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so we're living in our amygdala in

that moment, and we're panicked.

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So how do we then say, look, we've

got you, we understand that you're

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gonna need some support, and that

could be short term and it could be

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over the next quarter, it could be

the next six months or two a year.

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Here's the package that we can

propose that to get that forward.

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We can do the bookings for you

and all these kinds of things

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and get them on those lists.

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So I really I'm happy that we're

able to provide that type of support.

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And again, I it really depends.

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Our customers come to us in

a variety of different ways.

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I, I describe the situation that I

personally find myself in because

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I've had to support an older who

is very independent and didn't

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wanna make a plan necessarily for

these kinds of crisis moments.

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And so we as children had to jump

in and do these kinds of things.

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And so the companies

learn from that as well.

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And we've been able to.

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Hardware, some of those processes.

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And actually, Michael, what we find

is that, like in the research that

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we've done, 89% of at least Americans,

I, I don't know if that covers all

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of North America, but when we think

of North Americans in general, 89

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to 90% of people choose to live

at home or wish to live at home.

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Yeah.

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Yet, this kind of crisis scenario,

I'm suggesting 85% of those people

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who do choose to live at home or wish

to live at home haven't made a plan.

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And I think that's where, on the surface

like this, where you know, you're cruising

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along at 30,000 feet and everything's

fine, all of a sudden, boom, you have a

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fall or boom, you have a health crisis

and your family needs to step in.

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We can support with that.

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Also, another way that we're coming to

market is that we're, doing B2B type

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of partnerships with those agencies

that are, let's say, international,

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national, that are providing in-home

care services and even some senior

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living communities that don't have all

the services that we can then provide.

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So very often when I see people who've

moved from living in their own homes,

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maybe even into senior living, they're

happy that they have services like rides.

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But when they arrive in those

communities, they realize, oh, the

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rides are only two days a week.

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So there's, from nine to 12

on a Tuesday and Thursday.

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However, maybe you have physical therapy

or you have your oncology appointments

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that you need to get to on a weekly or

biweekly basis, and it's not compatible

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with the driving schedule you have

in that senior living community.

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So that's where we gaps often.

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Also, things like extra food delivery,

if it's in a senior living community

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versus assisted living, we might be able

to be a part of, handyman services and

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modification, those kinds of things.

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And the tech, I think is universal.

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What I'm discovering is the journey

of tech with seniors has been one

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of the more enlightening ones, I

think, in my lifetime, which is I.

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Deconstructing unconscious bias that

is existing about olders in general,

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which is you're older, you can't do X.

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You're older, you don't have

interest in y, you're older, you're

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incapable of learning something new.

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For example, technology and my experience

of it, Michael, is that the work that

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we're doing in our like community-based

programs or also in the home, it's quite

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the opposite that we're finding is that

older are super hungry to learn and

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willing to learn and wishing to learn.

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It's just that they need a little extra

time to learn how to do that because

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they're very aware they're very aware

that if they're not participating

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now they're going to be shut out of,

for example, online baking or online.

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Food ordering systems, like

if you go to a restaurant, you

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have to use an app or a QR code.

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But I think really the critical

one is healthcare record keeping.

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That's all digital.

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So also, I need to say, 'cause it's,

I think it's important to mention a

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lot of the things I'm talking about

are things we've discovered through

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running the business and being in

market for almost two years and having,

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daily conversations with our customers

and their families and having had

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this experience of being in market.

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We also, before we ever designed

anything, actually four years

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ago, we did an ethnographic

research study with older folks.

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And I just find, I, I'm gonna say it

because it's such an unusual scientific

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approach to designing a startup from the

ground up in any way for that matter.

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Because often if you hear about

ethnography coming into research,

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you might hear it around fast

moving consumer goods, I.

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Like Proctor and Gamble, Coca-Cola,

those are big brands that use ethnography

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because they wanna understand how

people, their hope, dreams, spheres

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for their lives and how those products

can alleviate or, fill in those gaps.

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We did the same thing

with olders ourselves.

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This is that before we started the

show, we talked about, I'm writing

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a scientific paper, so I'm sub, I'm

submitting this now for publication

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in a medical journal in the us.

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Just to talk about the descriptive

aspect and the value of doing

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open-ended research in this community

to understand what are hopes,

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dreams, fears, and a, and aspirations

for living at home independently.

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Because I think especially

in the entrepreneur space.

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People, entrepreneurs become very

passionate about doing something and

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if they don't understand their customer

very well and passionately pa I guess

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curiosity, with great passion and

consistency, if they don't look into those

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areas and really try to understand from

the ground up their user's experience,

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they might design the wrong thing.

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So we're really proud that we

actually did that and it changed

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the way we came to market.

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It changed what we designed and

also as we were designing our tech,

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we designed it with older people.

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So you're asking about

technology and olders.

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We literally have a group of people

between 70 and 93 now who actually do the

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beta testing on all of our tech and helped

us design all these things and did all the

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checks that we needed to along the way.

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Mike: Yeah.

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That's fantastic.

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Yeah.

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You're anticipating some of my

questions about all of this.

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It's just fascinating.

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And I wanted to just early on in

our discussion, I wanted to just

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clarify for viewers and listeners the

name of the platform, and I'm gonna

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put links to the show note, links

in the show notes to this content.

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Then I would encourage people to

check that out and we'll talk a

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bit about that again at the end.

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But maybe just before I ask some more

questions about that, can you just explain

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for us the name of the platform, and like

the website basically, and then, yeah,

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we'll come back to that at the end also.

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Jennifer: Absolutely no problem.

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The company's called Viva Valet.

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You can find us at www.VivaValet.com.

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And so how that's spelled, I know you

have a, also probably French speaking

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audience, but VIVA, and then VALET.com.

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Perfect.

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We're operating in in

Illinois in the United States.

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We are now expanding up to other

regions with, excuse me, with the

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concierge service, which is this phone.

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Excuse me, the phone in service.

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We also have a partnership in

India, so we're not opposed

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to going to other geographies.

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We've been working with the Ministry

of Health in India to also replicate

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this ethnographic research,

which we found to be the same.

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I think that's also worth saying

is the results in terms of

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descriptive, understanding of

hopes, dreams, spheres, aspirations

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of living at home independently.

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They were the same across

cultures, which shocked us.

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We thought that they would be different,

but they're actually the same.

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So we're, we've done a partnership

with the Ministry of Health and the

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Indian Physicians Association and

insurance provider to try to provide

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some of these services also in Mumbai.

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We are excited.

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We'd love to come to Canada.

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Mike: Yeah, no, I think that's,

it's so exciting and I think

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there's a huge need for that.

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Obviously everywhere in Canada included,

and I'm really impressed as well

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because again, from my work experience,

it's pretty clear that, navigating

350

:

the sensitivity of a lot of these

issues is a big part of it, right?

351

:

It's a personal, any, anything related

to one's family and one's home.

352

:

There's an intimacy to that really

requires a lot of sensitivity in

353

:

terms of helping to just match what a

person thinks they need with perhaps

354

:

what they might actually need.

355

:

And then how the, an external

agency, external helpers, non-family

356

:

caregivers might then become

integrated and helpful in that way.

357

:

There's just so many different

variables and I can imagine that a

358

:

real sensitivity is required in order

to try to meet these needs that you've

359

:

discovered in terms of the ethnographic

study that you're talking about.

360

:

Jennifer: Yeah, very much it's I think

it, in designing and any of, for any of

361

:

your listeners, I really encourage you to

think about how could you be of service

362

:

as an entrepreneur to this population.

363

:

Because what we've found is,

with, as you say, the sensitivity,

364

:

the compassion, the empathy.

365

:

If you are a business that offers

a serious solution, that is

366

:

solving a problem and delivers

all of that problem solving.

367

:

Business delivery with all these

qualities, all these values, we find

368

:

that customers that are this in, 70 and

above, they tend to be extremely loyal.

369

:

So we see this across multiple

verticals with this population.

370

:

But, especially in health and

in support services for living

371

:

at home, they're very loyal.

372

:

And so it may be a little bit

more difficult to find them and

373

:

to what we call have customer,

what we say, customer conversion.

374

:

But once you have them in your

business, they like to stay

375

:

because it's this sense of comfort.

376

:

And again, if you win their

trust by the them saying, yes,

377

:

I'll join, they will stay.

378

:

90% of our customers stay.

379

:

Mike: Yeah, and I think

it, that's great to hear.

380

:

It makes a lot of sense.

381

:

It's also really, again, makes a lot

of sense and it's great to hear what

382

:

you're talking about just now about the

actual user interface and how you have

383

:

the seniors who are actually doing the

beta testing, which makes perfect sense.

384

:

And so what I was understanding

is that there's a kind of a

385

:

dual interface experience.

386

:

So can you, without, I know it's maybe

a bit challenging without actually

387

:

being able to show on the screen,

but can you maybe just try and, I

388

:

mean we've got listeners as well

on the audio podcast side, so Yeah.

389

:

Is it possible for you to just

give a rough picture in words as to

390

:

how the experience is on, in terms

of that dual interface concept?

391

:

Jennifer: Absolutely.

392

:

So the dual interface concept

means that if you are someone like.

393

:

Yourself or myself.

394

:

We're adult children.

395

:

We use tech every day.

396

:

We're very almost, we, of course,

we had to learn how to use it,

397

:

and we're essentially tech native.

398

:

So for us, it's not uncommon that we

use Amazon or we use any type of apps

399

:

to navigate our day on a daily basis.

400

:

We don't necessarily need

anything out of the ordinary.

401

:

To navigate on a website.

402

:

And so we've designed our website for

that user to say, if you're an adult

403

:

child, you can go through lickety

split, go through the order process.

404

:

Your customer flow is very

simple and very normal.

405

:

Like you'd say, if you are, for

example, an older person, you

406

:

can choose, you can slide right

on the top and go to easy mode.

407

:

And Easy mode has basically, again,

this is a neuroscience podcast.

408

:

It's taken, it's utilized the

thinking from neuroscience, which

409

:

is let's limit decision fatigue.

410

:

Therefore, let's limit.

411

:

Let's limit the things

that are on the screen.

412

:

Make it very simple, very

clean, very easy to navigate.

413

:

Make the navigation from

start to finish very clear.

414

:

One thing that's as a customer

experience interface, always making

415

:

sure that the price is clear.

416

:

As you navigate, maybe you add

a feature or reduce a feature

417

:

of what you're ordering.

418

:

We always have a price,

so it's never a surprise.

419

:

That's the other thing is no

surprises no fraud, no surprises.

420

:

And so yeah, with easy mode, it's

really all about being accessible,

421

:

making sure that we passed all

the accessibility kind of hurdles,

422

:

reducing reducing options, reducing

extra bells and bells and whistles.

423

:

And I think also what's important

to explain to your listeners is

424

:

as you age, your the acuity of.

425

:

Color contrast is reduced.

426

:

So what we've done is we've made sure

that we had extra high contrast in colors.

427

:

We've also avoided

colors that can be muted.

428

:

As we age, we start to regress

towards a mean and again, a color

429

:

acuity fades, which me means that

we develop almost a colorblindness.

430

:

So we've designed that in mind.

431

:

The other thing, although it's

not, what it is that if you tell

432

:

us what you need, you tell us what

you're looking for, what you need.

433

:

Let's say you're looking

for a cleaning service.

434

:

You've got three rooms in your house.

435

:

You live in this type of situation.

436

:

You don't need a deep cleaning, you

just need a regular cleaning, et cetera.

437

:

Maybe you need laundry

support, you've got stairs.

438

:

You can go ahead and we can put

that in and you tell us where your,

439

:

where you live with your zip code,

and we'll offer you the solution.

440

:

And again, this is about reducing decision

fatigue because one could say couldn't

441

:

I just Google this and Trustpilot it?

442

:

And Yes.

443

:

However, what we know is that

one of the fundamental challenges

444

:

in addition to trust is that

boulders have a deficit of time.

445

:

They know that.

446

:

They know that they're on the

fine line and the march towards.

447

:

The inevitable, and they know

that their time is precious.

448

:

And we as youngers might

say, don't waste my time.

449

:

They're on a, they're on an

entirely different level when

450

:

they say, don't waste my time.

451

:

So they, what we hear from our

users and also from our research

452

:

that we did from the very

beginning was, don't waste my time.

453

:

Don't mess me around.

454

:

Don't waste my time.

455

:

Don't make me do 10 additional

steps that don't make sense for me.

456

:

Just tell me what I need.

457

:

I told you what I need,

just tell me what it is.

458

:

And so because we, that was part of that

originally, that was an easy mode feature.

459

:

For older, but actually it's pretty

much for everyone is that this is the

460

:

option that we have for you and everyone.

461

:

We've essentially said that these

options are all equivalent that

462

:

we have inside because we've

done all the pre-vetting for you.

463

:

We've done all the quality vetting, we've

done, we've tested the services ourselves.

464

:

We've had them, we've had to observe their

services and watch their services and

465

:

double check everything, and then we get

all of the feedback on them immediately.

466

:

So that that from, again, designing a

business with the neuroscience in mind.

467

:

How do you make the user experience as

effortless and frictionless as possible?

468

:

It really makes sense.

469

:

Mike: Yeah, it's really, it's inspiring.

470

:

It strikes me also that in talking about

reducing the risk of seniors being taken

471

:

advantage of through online frauds and

what have you, the more that a senior

472

:

person is feeling comfortable just in

terms of using the technology, probably

473

:

that just raises their own awareness about

how to avoid things like phishing emails

474

:

and various different problems like that.

475

:

I.

476

:

Jennifer: In fact, phishing emails on top.

477

:

So the biggest, I would say most popular

requests, if we call them requests

478

:

like we're a DJ or something, but like

the requests we get around training

479

:

would be how do I share a photo?

480

:

How do you know texting with my

grandchildren, how do I share photos

481

:

or how do I access the family chat?

482

:

Those are often things that we get.

483

:

Things like, we teach them how to make

a Spotify playlist, which is delightful

484

:

to them because they don't know that

they have this jukebox in their pockets.

485

:

The next, how do I prevent

fraud and teach me?

486

:

And I will share a personal story because.

487

:

Everything that we're practicing

is something I'm practicing on an

488

:

individual level of my own family.

489

:

So with my older, I will go through and I,

when I hear new updates of things that are

490

:

threats, I will go and I'll walk through,

this is the threat, here's how you manage

491

:

it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

492

:

And I went to the Apple store with

my older, and I was so impressed that

493

:

he was teaching the genius attendant

what saying Hey, I'm an older person.

494

:

I'm, 88 and this is a risk.

495

:

And when you're talking to older people,

can you please teach them this and this?

496

:

So that I think is one of the most

beautiful things about technology,

497

:

but in general about olders, is

that they're so passionate about

498

:

sharing their wisdom in every way.

499

:

So they learn something new.

500

:

And the first instinct is that

their first instinct is, I'm

501

:

gonna share this knowledge and I'm

gonna share this in my community.

502

:

Yeah, especially about like how to

protect themselves from phishing

503

:

emails and fake I AI scams, et cetera.

504

:

Mike: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I guess

that's the next issue that's looming is

505

:

just deep fakes of voices, family voices,

and the need for families to agree to a

506

:

certain phrase or something that, that

can be used to guarantee the identity.

507

:

It's unbelievable.

508

:

And it really is disheartening when you

think about all of these, unscrupulous

509

:

people that are trying to leverage this

technology to take advantage of people.

510

:

It's awful.

511

:

Yeah,

512

:

Jennifer: this is precise and I'll

speak to it because you mentioned it.

513

:

This is precisely.

514

:

The kind of thing that we're

scanning for and that we're sharing

515

:

with our customers, and also

obviously with our own loved ones.

516

:

The things to watch out for if

you're receiving a phone call.

517

:

For example, if it's

check, is it different?

518

:

Is it an unregistered number or

number that you're not accustomed

519

:

to receiving from the loved one?

520

:

I, for one, only use FaceTime

with my loved ones because I said,

521

:

I'm never gonna call you on any

other mechanism than FaceTime.

522

:

First of all, we like to see each other,

but also if it's a phone call, already

523

:

something suspicious, number one.

524

:

Number two, if there's some

type of, it could be my voice.

525

:

Very likely.

526

:

My voice is everywhere

on podcasts, for example.

527

:

And so if I sus, somehow sus,

if I, if my voice is suggesting

528

:

I need something urgently.

529

:

That is the number one thing

that is never gonna be true.

530

:

And then we also do suggest for ourselves

and for our customers, always have

531

:

a keyword that you can respond to.

532

:

Go back to that.

533

:

But it's, it's really disheartening

because I see this even in my own company.

534

:

I've had moments where I think

there was an occasion where.

535

:

There was someone impersonating me,

texting my employee, saying, I'm at

536

:

this conference and I'm speaking, which

I just had been the week before, on a

537

:

platform and speaking at a Congress.

538

:

And I lost my wallet.

539

:

Can you please text me or transfer money?

540

:

And I uniformly no one

is ever going to do that.

541

:

No one's ever gonna ask for that.

542

:

No one, especially if it has

anything to do with urgency,

543

:

that is the number one trigger.

544

:

It's not happening.

545

:

Sorry.

546

:

It's, I don't hope, I hope this

isn't too much of a divergence, but I

547

:

really feel super passionate about it.

548

:

'cause I think it's important for olders,

especially because they're so vulnerable.

549

:

And I also see people that are not older

that are falling victim to these things.

550

:

I even had a former colleague who's now

working in cybersecurity and banking and

551

:

also walk down that path with the bank.

552

:

So for example, if you are an older

person who's listening to this and

553

:

your bank calls you out of the blue

and suspects that there's some type

554

:

of fraud activity on your account,

hang up and call the bank back.

555

:

Say thank you so much for the call.

556

:

Thank you.

557

:

It's always nice to say thank you.

558

:

Thank you.

559

:

Call the bank yourself.

560

:

And the bank would have

registered that phone call.

561

:

If it was an outgoing phone call

from the bank, they would have it

562

:

registered and they would be able to

also pick up the file immediately.

563

:

That's the number one port of

call in any of these things.

564

:

Mike: That it's a very important tip and

I think something that's very easy for

565

:

people to do and just to remember and not

to, yeah, there's this part of, I think

566

:

it's just part of what scammers take

advantage of is this human proclivity

567

:

to want to be cooperative or to trust.

568

:

And then if the anxiety comes,

it's obviously they've put a lot of

569

:

thought behind their scams in terms

of the psychology of how to best try

570

:

to hook somebody and hoodwink them.

571

:

But yeah, for sure hanging up or

even just make, making an effort to

572

:

develop a personal real, like a real

kind of like name, face and name

573

:

relationship with a banker to be

able to say, phone them and then, or

574

:

the manager at the bank or whatever.

575

:

And so for the adult kids involved, to be

able to also be part of that loop as well.

576

:

And to try and make sure that there's

a bit of oversight as much as maybe is

577

:

necessary in those sorts of situations.

578

:

Acting as a liaison with the point person

at the bank and the senior in the family.

579

:

Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely.

580

:

In fact in the UK there is a

ai, and it's called AI Granny,

581

:

I think is what it's called.

582

:

AI Bot, who is an older woman herself,

and she will, you can use her to.

583

:

I don't actually know how it

works, but what the function is

584

:

that they will talk to the AI or

they will talk to the scammers.

585

:

They'll talk to the people that are

trying to gather this information or

586

:

talk to talk to tele telemarketers.

587

:

And the whole goal is that they

wish to keep those people tied up

588

:

on phone calls with that individual

granny bot for a very long time.

589

:

Oh, sweetheart, I don't understand.

590

:

Could you please explain again?

591

:

That's very interesting.

592

:

Tell me more.

593

:

Oh, so they lean into the information

and their goal is let's keep

594

:

those people tied to something so

they're not hurting other people.

595

:

So I love that solution

as a tech solution.

596

:

It's a defensive and offensive

solution to protect, I think it's.

597

:

Beautiful.

598

:

Mike: Yeah.

599

:

And, yeah, for sure.

600

:

I think anything that can be done to

distract or otherwise just prevent

601

:

these, again, scammers from taking

advantage of vulnerable people.

602

:

And in terms of, it's clear that,

you're so knowledgeable and passionate

603

:

about this kind of work, and you've

taken that to the next level in terms

604

:

of advocacy at the United Nations.

605

:

So can you tell us a little

bit about this, A RP,

606

:

commission on Aging Technology?

607

:

Jennifer: Even hearing you say

this A RP and SEC UN Secretary

608

:

General Commission on Aging.

609

:

I can't believe I was a part of this and

I was so fortunate to be able to be myself

610

:

and my fou and my founder, M Perina.

611

:

We were invited to consult these

groups that were gathering insights

612

:

with government, academia, industry.

613

:

For example, Microsoft was on

there, university, there was a

614

:

really amazing gerontologist from

the University of Toronto as well.

615

:

And we were there to create a white

paper on broadband access, wifi access

616

:

design, inclusive design for elderly.

617

:

We had three different we had three

different white papers that we

618

:

created, and really what it was meant

to do was informing the UN Secretary

619

:

General's office on how to work with.

620

:

UN member states to find go

Intergovernment academic and

621

:

let's say industry based solutions

that could be more inclusive

622

:

for older adults as they age.

623

:

Because we know that by 2050, we have 1.3

624

:

billion people who are above

the age of 70 globally.

625

:

So it's, we're tripling the number

of olders we have on the planet.

626

:

And so it's not just a, oh granny,

it's actually this is going to be the

627

:

largest part of our population globally.

628

:

It's going to be.

629

:

The part that's holding majority

of the wealth and also the

630

:

majority of voting power.

631

:

And so as that popul, as we age into

those groups, we're going to need

632

:

to have solutions that are designed

also from a tech perspective.

633

:

As we become more and more online

for everything, we need to come up

634

:

with solutions that are going to be

accommodating and they're going to

635

:

be inclusive of those populations.

636

:

So it would be for, from a

design perspective, it would be

637

:

from like a broadband access.

638

:

So how do we increase access as

well for areas where you might

639

:

have let's say access deserts.

640

:

And if you're going you have a

kind of a block or gap between.

641

:

Lack of access and the

desire for telemedicine.

642

:

Because if you're, as you go into

those age groups, you're gonna

643

:

need to utilize more healthcare.

644

:

And if you're more and more remote,

you're gonna need to have these

645

:

type of solutions for remote care.

646

:

Be they, ar, vr, those kinds of things.

647

:

So finding solutions that we

could even direct to low orbital.

648

:

So I know it gets very technical

very quickly, but like low orbital

649

:

satellites that are being launched to

be used to direct for populations that

650

:

might need to be accessing resources.

651

:

And that's just as what, that's

making the bridge also to the

652

:

global health initiative when we're

looking at, malaria surveillance,

653

:

where we're looking at disease

outbreaks in, let's say, Sub-Saharan

654

:

Africa, where you have these large.

655

:

Large parts of the geography that

have no wifi for example, or low

656

:

satellite or access deserts in

terms of satellite capability.

657

:

Trying to find ways to make that coverage.

658

:

So those, all those things

were feeding into that.

659

:

And it was just, gosh, Michael, it

was such a wonderful experience.

660

:

We were so grateful that we had the

wisdom of the Microsoft leader for

661

:

design for I, I think, what is it called?

662

:

Accessibility design, which is those who

are designing for folks with disability.

663

:

And I think the great, the love story

of design and designing for a constraint

664

:

like this, I just would say it's a design

constraint where the person doesn't

665

:

have vision, the person has one hand.

666

:

Or the person doesn't have mobility

or the person has an auditory

667

:

reduction, auditory acuity.

668

:

Those are the beautiful moments of

design because you have to innovate

669

:

to make it work for that population.

670

:

Once you fix for that constraint, that

human lack of ability, actually everyone

671

:

benefits because you've then made that.

672

:

So that's, for example, texting.

673

:

That's where texting comes from

in general, is that was for

674

:

folks that were limited on their

ability to hear, for example.

675

:

So those are beautiful

examples of how we can.

676

:

Understand ability, disability

accessibility, and how the

677

:

love of the customer really.

678

:

It's it's truly a love story.

679

:

Understanding the customer,

understanding their unique needs.

680

:

Where are the gaps in how

the world works today?

681

:

And thinking creatively with

love and compassion, how are

682

:

we gonna bridge that gap?

683

:

That's what all that's for.

684

:

And so again, that's what this UN

commission was all about, is coming

685

:

up with some, bring big minds together

to come up with to come up with ideas.

686

:

All those white papers, by the

way, are available on our website.

687

:

So you were mentioning earlier

our company Viva Valet.

688

:

So if you go onto our website, we

have our blog posts, we have a lot

689

:

of videos that I've put out there

that support, maybe there are clips

690

:

of podcasts and there may be there

other elements we use for education.

691

:

We've got those white papers there.

692

:

I'll also mention if you're going there,

I have something called Take Action

693

:

Tuesday, which I particularly love.

694

:

It's like a one minute little TED

talk that we give or I give, which

695

:

is for caregivers to say, what's

one thing you can do this week?

696

:

One action that you can take that

will support you in your caregiving

697

:

Jo journey or so support you in

your journey with your older.

698

:

So again, it could be a

cybersecurity edition, it could

699

:

be a conversation to have.

700

:

It could be about medication management.

701

:

But anyway, that's something that

you could find on our website

702

:

and also on our YouTube channel.

703

:

Mike: Yeah.

704

:

No, that's fantastic.

705

:

It sounds like such a broad and

important resource for sure.

706

:

And it's amazing because as you were

talking about earlier, in terms of

707

:

the growing connections with India

and places outside of Europe and North

708

:

America, and how there's probably some

overlap in terms of the global approach

709

:

with the United Nations that way.

710

:

And it's, it is so interesting, as you

were saying about how they're, you're

711

:

identifying these commonalities which,

on the one hand is surprising, but on

712

:

the other hand, it makes sense, right?

713

:

Because I think across cultures,

people as they age there, there

714

:

are commonalities, obviously.

715

:

And so then there would most likely

be common problems that, that,

716

:

that lead to, again, in broad

strokes, common approaches, but

717

:

with personalized tailoring as well.

718

:

At the end of the day.

719

:

Jennifer: I think the unifying

red thread between populations

720

:

is the desire for independence.

721

:

The desire for agency and

the desire to have your own

722

:

decisions directing your life.

723

:

Be that through the use of, how

to utilize healthcare if you

724

:

can't make decisions for yourself.

725

:

Being able to have something in place

to make those decisions in advance.

726

:

And I would say 80% overlap

of I wish to do this alone.

727

:

I wish for no one to step in and tell

me what to do if I receive help from

728

:

my children, for example, I would

like to receive help as I request.

729

:

I would like to not have someone step in.

730

:

And I think that those threads are

common across cultures because some

731

:

have said, oh there's the, there's

certain cultures maybe in Asia where

732

:

you are, you're more communal based

where you're more family based and you

733

:

expect your children to be involved.

734

:

You may expect your

children to be involved.

735

:

However, the unifying thing is if you

expect your children to be involved,

736

:

it's for the request that you have.

737

:

Not for them to step in and

take away your own agency.

738

:

And that's a real fine line is that I

often see in our po in our customers

739

:

that there are adult children that

wish to jump in and just solve the

740

:

problem, because that's easier.

741

:

And it's the same thing that you might do

as a parent when you have a young child.

742

:

I'll just step in and fix it, it's fine.

743

:

And, or I'm, oh, there's, I see

that my, my kid's gonna fall

744

:

and I don't want them to fall.

745

:

So I swoop in and I take the risk away.

746

:

Or what is it?

747

:

The snowplow parents, that clear the path.

748

:

Congratulations.

749

:

Your kids say if they didn't

fall and bruise their knee

750

:

today, or congratulations,

your older didn't fall today.

751

:

They didn't learn.

752

:

Coming up, it's a really huge fine line.

753

:

And the, what I've often been

asked is, if there's one action

754

:

you can take today, what is it?

755

:

And the action I say is ask permission.

756

:

You wanna get involved

in your olders life.

757

:

You wanna help them.

758

:

Wonderful.

759

:

That's wonderful.

760

:

And what a gift to be able

to offer that and say, mom,

761

:

dad, auntie, uncle, loved one.

762

:

Whoever you are, who's an older person,

how would you like me to support you?

763

:

How can I support you?

764

:

Would you like me to support you?

765

:

I'd love to.

766

:

How would you like me to support you?

767

:

And that is the switch right there.

768

:

Or if you have a loved one who's

going through a serious disease

769

:

process, because that's often where

this transition happens, is that you

770

:

have, your olders are fine and there's

no problem, and they're completely

771

:

living alone and doing great, and all

of a sudden they have a very serious

772

:

acute and or chronic health diagnosis.

773

:

That means that some of their

independence is going to be compromised.

774

:

What I always tell my customers

and my ecosystem is, I'm

775

:

terribly sorry this happened.

776

:

How would you like to be supported?

777

:

That's the magic.

778

:

Mike: Yeah, that makes tons of sense.

779

:

It, it speaks to the importance of

respecting and promoting agency use

780

:

that term, which is a very important

term, but also it really relates to the

781

:

understandable desire for all people to

want to have their dignity respected.

782

:

Because I think that's a huge

fear of people as they age is

783

:

that, will, that equate with a

loss of dignity and self-control.

784

:

So yeah, just showing a

lot of respect to that.

785

:

It makes perfect sense.

786

:

Jennifer: Yeah.

787

:

Will I lose my dignity?

788

:

Will someone care?

789

:

Sounds like a Broadway song.

790

:

In fact, I think it is a quote from Rent.

791

:

So as I am a Broadway nut, I'm thinking

now there's a musical playing in my mind.

792

:

Mike: That's, no, that's a good segue.

793

:

'cause I was actually gonna ask,

this co I love the concept that

794

:

I've read in, in your content about

aging with reference and play.

795

:

Can you just help us understand in

more detail what that means for you?

796

:

Jennifer: So aging with, play with

and I'll just step right into it.

797

:

I'm so fortunate that I actually

trained in Toronto at Second City, so

798

:

I'm a graduate of their conservatory

program, performed on the main

799

:

stage, did all those great things.

800

:

So thank you Toronto, thank you

Canada for I think making my

801

:

dreams come true as a human.

802

:

And I.

803

:

Having those insights on how to perform

improv comedy, sketch comedy, how to

804

:

create those things, the tools that

we use to make something from nothing.

805

:

Because essentially that's what improv is

you, every single time you perform, you

806

:

are working with your ensemble to create.

807

:

One common hive mind where you're

anticipating each other, you're listening,

808

:

you are co-creating, you are using all the

tools that we have to quiet our amygdala

809

:

and really get those executive functions

connecting with other one others on stage.

810

:

We're using those skills to create

something which delights our audiences.

811

:

Now those same skills that we use

in improv, improvisational theater

812

:

are equally as important in the

caregiving environment and also

813

:

in how we interact with olders.

814

:

In fact, I run here in Basel.

815

:

I run a comedy school.

816

:

I've been running it

for the last four years.

817

:

I trained, I've trained hundreds of people

who are now, using these skills on stages.

818

:

I also do a lot of work with.

819

:

Executives who are trying to fight

their, let's say, trying to develop

820

:

their executive presence, working on,

let's say, media presence as well,

821

:

fighting imposter syndrome, trying

to find ways to get their teams to

822

:

have more ideation or collaboration.

823

:

We use these tools from a leadership

and neuroscience perspective to tell

824

:

better stories to connect, et cetera.

825

:

The fa, regardless of all those different

folks, I get to train my favorite people

826

:

to actually teach improv, to are olders.

827

:

It's the most absolutely most

rewarding group of people.

828

:

And sometimes it's in the

context of caregiving.

829

:

I can teach caregivers how to do this

because it'll teach, it'll enable

830

:

them to have a better bridge of

communication with their patients.

831

:

But it just going straight to the olders

themselves, it is incredible to watch

832

:

Michael, what I see, I've done it in

several assisted living facilities.

833

:

And what I always see is there's a group,

there's maybe three or four people that

834

:

are saying, yeah, I'd like to try this.

835

:

And other people come and watch.

836

:

They, oh, I'm here for the show.

837

:

No, this is a class.

838

:

We're gonna do this together.

839

:

Oh no.

840

:

I'm just gonna watch.

841

:

And then about a quarter of the way

through, maybe 10% a quarter of the

842

:

way through, I hear the shuffling

of the chairs and everyone's

843

:

coming and excluding into the,

it's just it's totally predictable.

844

:

The great migration into the

circle of wanting to do this.

845

:

And then they start to use these

tools to play, to listen to interact.

846

:

And I had so many directors

of these facilities say, it's

847

:

magic what you did, because.

848

:

At the end, these people

are physically more strong.

849

:

Like you can see that they

have like better balance.

850

:

They're as if they seem

taller because their postures

851

:

Mike: improved.

852

:

Jennifer: Yeah.

853

:

Their eye, you can see

the focus in their eyes.

854

:

You can see the obviously smiles and

laughter, and there's something about

855

:

them that seems how somehow younger,

like their faces are more relaxed.

856

:

And so all those things are incredible.

857

:

They've had a good time.

858

:

They've been creating they're interacting,

but the sustained impact of that lasts

859

:

for hours after one of these courses.

860

:

Because what I see is that I've put

them in a position where they're more

861

:

vulnerable, more open and willing to

share and collaborate and as a result,

862

:

they're interacting with each other.

863

:

So I've had these directors come

to me to say, I can't get these

864

:

people to get together and talk.

865

:

Maybe they have their cliques, but I

can't get them to talk in a big group.

866

:

I've had courses where people sit

around for two hours and talk with

867

:

each other, and all of a sudden they're

recalling stories of their life and

868

:

they're wanting to tell more stories.

869

:

So it's just supercharged for connection.

870

:

And ultimately, you, we talk about, we,

you and I haven't talked about Blue Zones,

871

:

but Blue Zones is often what people are

asking me about is, blue Zones are areas

872

:

all around the world where you've got

these people who turn a hundred years old.

873

:

There's high concentrations of

folks that live that old and what

874

:

it comes down to is we try to tweak

and understand these populations.

875

:

Is it die?

876

:

Is it weather?

877

:

Is it the water?

878

:

Is it the air quality?

879

:

Is it exercise?

880

:

Is it this?

881

:

Sure.

882

:

All those things have something

in play, but the two things that

883

:

really come in connection is

it there's a sense of purpose.

884

:

And that purpose doesn't really

have to be anything specific.

885

:

It's unique to that person.

886

:

Does that person feel like

they have purpose and do

887

:

they have social connections?

888

:

And this is where the improv comes

in, is that if you can use that,

889

:

create a theater class, in an assisted

living facility or in a senior living.

890

:

Facility or in the community Jane

Fonda and Ashton Applewhite, I don't

891

:

know if you are following Ashton

Applewhite, she's an advocate for olders.

892

:

She's working together with Jane

Fonda and they've been doing

893

:

research on, again, blue Zones.

894

:

What are things that are helping

people extend their health span

895

:

and have more joy in their life?

896

:

And they're finding it's really

getting involved in the arts.

897

:

So is it fine art?

898

:

Is it performance art?

899

:

Is it mus the musical performances,

some form of artistic expression?

900

:

If you are finding a way to create that

as a practice in your life, it's expanding

901

:

health span and it's expanding your joy.

902

:

And my personal experience with,

for the Performing Arts with Olders

903

:

is that it makes them connect with

each other in the most unique way.

904

:

So where that relates back to my business

is that my people that go into homes

905

:

of olders, I teach them these tools

and I ask them to use these tools so

906

:

that we have this kind of magical.

907

:

Interaction, like I often

use the allegory of Disney.

908

:

I think it's, what is it, $8,000

that a family will spend to get to

909

:

Disney between the travel and the

hotels and the ticketing and the food.

910

:

If you're doing that with your young

family, you're exhausted you're

911

:

hauling your young kids around, you

better be having a magical experience.

912

:

So at Disney, at when you go

to the parks, all of the cast

913

:

members is what they're called.

914

:

No matter what your role is in the park,

if you're taking tickets, if you're

915

:

running the rides, if you're serving

food, you're called a cast member because

916

:

you are part of the whole experience,

the theatrics of the experience, and

917

:

you are collectively delivering magic.

918

:

That's ultimately what I'm trying to

do with my business as well, is deliver

919

:

magic and the magic of connection and the

magic of respect and reverence for olders

920

:

when they receive these services that

enable them to live at home independently.

921

:

Mike: Yeah it's fantastic.

922

:

It's just so fascinating and it

makes perfect sense just how the

923

:

training of the improv helps to

create community in that way.

924

:

Because I think for, gosh, I.

925

:

For all of us at all ages, really.

926

:

No one really has a formal program

for learning social skills.

927

:

And I think that, at any age you could

benefit from that just in terms of being

928

:

able to think on your feet and have that

dynamism trained into a certain extent

929

:

around, being quick to know what to say

or how to respond or coming up with ideas.

930

:

But particularly in that, I think it's,

I see this all the time 'cause I work in

931

:

a lot of long-term care facilities and

I think it's that difficulty in terms

932

:

of how to navigate having, on the one

hand, the downsizing that's difficult to.

933

:

It's a kind of a bitter pill to swallow

in terms of having some limited personal

934

:

space, but then also being forced into

communal spaces and having to participate

935

:

sometimes in things where one might not

necessarily want to but thinking then

936

:

about what are some of the reasons why

people why is there a loneliness epidemic?

937

:

And maybe part of it is that, many people

don't have the social skills at baseline,

938

:

or they've just gotten into their own.

939

:

They're just used to decades of

living the way that they've lived.

940

:

And they've been content with that.

941

:

They have their own limited social

circle and then being boom, forced into

942

:

this situation where now that's not

gonna serve, that's not gonna suffice.

943

:

And they need to be able to figure out

how to expand and learn these skills that

944

:

you're teaching them with the improv,

for example, in order for them to be able

945

:

to make these connections and to have.

946

:

To re rediscover some joy in terms of

making those connections that at the end

947

:

of the day, they've had all the studies

that show that if someone later in life

948

:

could change one thing about how life

has turned out, most people will say that

949

:

they wish they had maintained their social

relationships with more intentionality.

950

:

Jennifer: A hundred percent.

951

:

Maintaining maintaining

social relationships.

952

:

And I really, this is actually

something that I did recently

953

:

as a, I think debunking the

myths of aging on our socials.

954

:

And that's that one of the myths is

that when you're older, it's too,

955

:

you're, it's too late to make friends.

956

:

It's too late.

957

:

It's too late to create new friendships

and whatever you've had in your life,

958

:

that's the friendship account that

you've had and then you're done.

959

:

And I, first of all, I find that's

entirely false recounting stories that

960

:

you're recounting where people are moving

from being at home and maybe feeling

961

:

isolated in fact, and going into these

facilities, finding ways to connect

962

:

and also the quality of friendships and

not necessarily the number, but having.

963

:

High quality social contacts helps

people reduce their health burden.

964

:

So you are you have, it's positively

correlated between high social,

965

:

high quality social contacts and

interactions and lower sort of health

966

:

consequences associated with that.

967

:

So I love it.

968

:

It's never too late, and I think that

you can equip olders with that ability

969

:

to connect in those environments.

970

:

And, I have seen some who have

turned around, and again, we,

971

:

our customers, we serve people,

majority of them are living at home.

972

:

Some of them are in

senior living communities.

973

:

And and our goal is.

974

:

It's live at home as long as you can,

but sometimes home isn't the home

975

:

that you've lived in for 30 years.

976

:

And if you've moved into a

senior living facility, great.

977

:

The goal is let's keep you independent.

978

:

And that, that independence is

not without social interaction,

979

:

but that independence is.

980

:

I have agency and I have the

ability to direct my own life.

981

:

Yeah.

982

:

And if you can do that and still have

high quality in social interactions,

983

:

then that's the magic, right?

984

:

Mike: Yeah.

985

:

For sure.

986

:

For sure.

987

:

So I'm curious then, you're so well

positioned to offer us insights

988

:

into things like what lies ahead.

989

:

So in terms of maybe a vision

that you've got for the next

990

:

five to 10 years, you know what?

991

:

Help us to understand what your.

992

:

Predictions are maybe in, in broad

strokes around what the aging experience

993

:

would hopefully look like by say 2035.

994

:

Jennifer: Yeah, so by 2035, we're

getting closer to that big number where

995

:

we have, if we just look at the rate

of aging today, 10,000 people turn

996

:

65 every single day, north America.

997

:

And so we are moving towards if I, this

doesn't include Canada, so apologies,

998

:

but by 2050 already, we're going to

have 85 million people in the us.

999

:

And again, if you add the numbers up

with Canada, I'm sure you're probably

:

00:55:37,555 --> 00:55:44,515

talking about easily over 110 million

people who are living 70 years and above.

:

00:55:44,875 --> 00:55:49,495

So that means that the shift, so as

those people age in those groups.

:

00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:52,600

There's a transfer of

wealth in those groups.

:

00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:56,380

We already know that majority of

assets in North America are owned

:

00:55:56,380 --> 00:55:58,540

by 50, those who are 50 and above.

:

00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:04,030

So again, those people are going

to be 75 in the next 15 years, or

:

00:56:04,030 --> 00:56:07,540

sorry 70 ish in the next 20 years.

:

00:56:07,930 --> 00:56:11,080

And so you've got an ac

accumulation of wealth.

:

00:56:12,070 --> 00:56:16,630

You have a lifespan that is

extended beyond what we've expected.

:

00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:21,540

So the retirement age is 65 but

typically the period of death was 70.

:

00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:24,300

So we've extended that already 20 years.

:

00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:28,920

So life expectancy from the

age of 65 IE retirement age is

:

00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,230

extending to 85 in North America,

or likely all, western populations.

:

00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:42,630

I predict that by:

had a reform in the retirement age.

:

00:56:43,230 --> 00:56:47,040

Almost uniformly, we've

already seen that in Europe.

:

00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,840

For example, I don't know if you've

seen this, but in Denmark two months

:

00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,920

ago there was legislation passed

that the age of retirement has

:

00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,690

now been raised to the age of 70.

:

00:56:58,310 --> 00:57:05,360

And so anyone who was born in

December, so I'm in part of this group.

:

00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:12,320

As of Dec, if you're born as of December,

:

:

00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:15,960

I think that in Germany the retirement

age is already been raised to 68.

:

00:57:16,020 --> 00:57:18,180

I'm certain that the US

is going to follow suit.

:

00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:22,345

And so what are we gonna, we're

US North America, we will have a

:

00:57:22,345 --> 00:57:24,145

retirement age that goes beyond that.

:

00:57:24,145 --> 00:57:29,695

So I think that we'll have massive reform

in that because we'll have reduction in

:

00:57:29,695 --> 00:57:34,135

the ability to afford those populations

because they're going to be upside down.

:

00:57:34,135 --> 00:57:37,395

In terms of the part of the population

that's actually fueling the social

:

00:57:37,395 --> 00:57:40,635

systems will be shrinking and we'll

having, we'll be having a larger

:

00:57:40,875 --> 00:57:45,295

dependent population on government

benefit for for pensions, et cetera.

:

00:57:45,505 --> 00:57:47,455

So you're gonna have to

extend the working age.

:

00:57:47,975 --> 00:57:52,825

That means that the work practices

corporate North America is also going

:

00:57:52,825 --> 00:57:55,555

to have to look different because

you're going to have, what is it, six

:

00:57:55,555 --> 00:57:57,655

generations working at the same time.

:

00:57:58,475 --> 00:58:01,985

So you're gonna, you're gonna

have to have reform both.

:

00:58:02,245 --> 00:58:07,105

Structural, both economic and I would

say cultural in the way that we look

:

00:58:07,155 --> 00:58:10,455

at the rate of aging and the way

we look at aging and employability.

:

00:58:10,755 --> 00:58:13,630

We've already seen in North America

the fastest growing entrepreneurial

:

00:58:13,630 --> 00:58:15,460

group is age 55 and above.

:

00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:19,910

So I think that again, in 15 years

you will see more businesses that have

:

00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:25,830

been founded by those who are in that

post traditional employment phase.

:

00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:26,900

And they'll be doing that.

:

00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,530

And I think that like the travel

industry is also going to be really

:

00:58:31,530 --> 00:58:36,060

revolutionized and I have so many

hopes and dreams for how that's going

:

00:58:36,060 --> 00:58:40,530

to look, but I think we're gonna

see a major modification to hotels.

:

00:58:41,110 --> 00:58:42,820

In terms of accessibility to travel.

:

00:58:42,820 --> 00:58:51,460

I think we also might see more, innovation

in ar vr type of travel, because I

:

00:58:51,460 --> 00:58:55,030

think we're gonna have a problem around

carbon footprint with physical travel.

:

00:58:55,430 --> 00:59:00,010

But I know that the moonshot adventure

that says, this is sponsored by

:

00:59:00,010 --> 00:59:03,940

Peter Dimond and Richard Branson and

Elon Musk, where they're throwing

:

00:59:03,945 --> 00:59:05,860

millions of dollars at a question.

:

00:59:06,250 --> 00:59:09,970

This has been one of the recent moonshot

ideas, which is what's the future

:

00:59:09,970 --> 00:59:11,740

of travel of when we don't travel?

:

00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:15,974

And so that would be a new category

that's coming both from an environmental

:

00:59:15,974 --> 00:59:19,214

consequence perspective, but also

accommodating people who can't

:

00:59:19,214 --> 00:59:22,994

physically move but do have leisure

time and wish to continue to learn.

:

00:59:23,474 --> 00:59:27,014

Society is going to change

in a way that's very radical.

:

00:59:27,104 --> 00:59:31,364

And just like when you look at the

:

:

00:59:31,364 --> 00:59:36,504

show me a comedy, did a comedy show

last weekend which was the fifties.

:

00:59:36,564 --> 00:59:39,314

And as we were looking at the

fifties, we're looking at fifties.

:

00:59:39,854 --> 00:59:41,024

Cultural artifacts.

:

00:59:41,024 --> 00:59:45,014

We were looking at movies

and, pop culture and music.

:

00:59:45,074 --> 00:59:48,914

And there was this, the:

was the massive glamorization

:

00:59:48,914 --> 00:59:50,384

of the teenager, right?

:

00:59:50,434 --> 00:59:53,584

So when you look at 15, 20 years ahead.

:

00:59:54,334 --> 00:59:57,964

That's, the last baby

boomers were born in:

:

00:59:58,444 --> 01:00:04,414

So now, as you get into those retirement

ages and above all those folks that were

:

01:00:04,714 --> 01:00:08,944

part of the glamorization of teenagers

in the fifties and sixties, now those

:

01:00:08,944 --> 01:00:10,534

are the people that are gonna be older.

:

01:00:10,864 --> 01:00:14,494

So I think that we must have this

cultural shift around them because

:

01:00:14,494 --> 01:00:16,144

they're the majority of the population.

:

01:00:16,834 --> 01:00:20,339

So I think the world will look

very different in that sense.

:

01:00:20,459 --> 01:00:22,919

And I don't mean it like,

oh, these people are older.

:

01:00:22,919 --> 01:00:23,879

We have to accommodate them.

:

01:00:23,909 --> 01:00:26,789

I think that because they're gonna

have resources, they're gonna have

:

01:00:27,059 --> 01:00:29,429

the majority of the demography.

:

01:00:29,429 --> 01:00:34,799

So therefore the largest voting block they

will have political power, economic power,

:

01:00:34,799 --> 01:00:37,409

and the power to say enough of this.

:

01:00:39,314 --> 01:00:39,884

Can I say that?

:

01:00:40,244 --> 01:00:40,754

Mike: Of course.

:

01:00:41,609 --> 01:00:43,514

Jennifer: Of this,

enough, of this garbage.

:

01:00:43,514 --> 01:00:45,434

We're not going to be marginalized.

:

01:00:45,584 --> 01:00:47,114

We demand to be seen.

:

01:00:47,384 --> 01:00:50,364

So I think what, like that this,

the whole baby boomer generation

:

01:00:50,364 --> 01:00:53,754

has always been a shift in our

population, globally disruptive.

:

01:00:53,934 --> 01:00:56,334

I think we'll continue to

see that as they get older.

:

01:00:56,454 --> 01:00:59,574

And then, and good, great

for the great for all of us.

:

01:00:59,684 --> 01:01:04,124

Because the result that all the

people that follow them in aging

:

01:01:04,394 --> 01:01:06,014

will have a different pathway.

:

01:01:06,314 --> 01:01:10,514

So one of the things that my partner and I

are really trying to do is we're trying to

:

01:01:10,514 --> 01:01:12,584

design the future that we wanna age into.

:

01:01:12,634 --> 01:01:18,054

So we're building these services now and

trying to even have, it's a business.

:

01:01:18,444 --> 01:01:19,614

It's a solution.

:

01:01:19,914 --> 01:01:22,279

And I really feel,

Michael, it's a movement.

:

01:01:22,359 --> 01:01:25,484

It's a movement of let's be different.

:

01:01:25,704 --> 01:01:29,694

Let's help these people live

with consequence, live with

:

01:01:29,694 --> 01:01:31,914

independence, live with reverence.

:

01:01:32,274 --> 01:01:37,254

And as a result of that type of

cultural shift, everything else shifts

:

01:01:37,254 --> 01:01:38,754

around it, like we just talked about.

:

01:01:39,144 --> 01:01:41,014

So I that's where we wanna go.

:

01:01:41,104 --> 01:01:42,034

That's where we wanna be.

:

01:01:42,084 --> 01:01:46,494

And I think it's going to lead to

some pretty seismic shifts and how

:

01:01:46,494 --> 01:01:48,594

the world looks at an older person.

:

01:01:48,649 --> 01:01:48,939

Mike: Yeah.

:

01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:52,804

No, it's an ambitious and optimistic

and exciting vision for sure.

:

01:01:52,804 --> 01:01:53,014

No.

:

01:01:53,014 --> 01:01:55,594

So thanks for sharing

that with us, Jennifer.

:

01:01:55,874 --> 01:01:59,354

Before we wrap up, is there anything

else that you wanted to talk about

:

01:01:59,354 --> 01:02:03,134

for a little while here, or any other

specific things that you thought would be

:

01:02:03,134 --> 01:02:05,774

important to touch on before we wrap up?

:

01:02:06,749 --> 01:02:10,769

Jennifer: I would just say a huge thank

you, Michael, for having me on the show.

:

01:02:10,769 --> 01:02:12,569

It's been a great conversation.

:

01:02:12,959 --> 01:02:19,679

You are an amazing host and you have

the most incredible calming presence.

:

01:02:19,679 --> 01:02:22,379

So it's a wonder, it's wonderful

to be a guest on your show.

:

01:02:22,379 --> 01:02:24,329

So thank you for being so welcoming.

:

01:02:24,869 --> 01:02:28,919

And in terms of closing a remark

that I would say is two things.

:

01:02:28,999 --> 01:02:30,769

The first rule of improv is yes.

:

01:02:30,769 --> 01:02:35,029

And so in that as a mindset,

just keep saying yes.

:

01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:36,169

And let's banish.

:

01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:39,169

Yes but let's use yes and let's

keep co-creating together.

:

01:02:39,229 --> 01:02:43,909

And the second is if you wanna

help your older, the first

:

01:02:43,909 --> 01:02:46,729

question is, how can I help you?

:

01:02:46,939 --> 01:02:50,329

How would you like to be

supported that and get permission?

:

01:02:50,599 --> 01:02:54,079

I think that would be, the world

would be changed if we could.

:

01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:54,409

Yes.

:

01:02:54,459 --> 01:02:57,489

And if we could ask permission

before we jump in, that's the

:

01:02:57,489 --> 01:02:58,689

starting point of everything.

:

01:02:59,634 --> 01:03:00,324

Mike: Fantastic.

:

01:03:00,354 --> 01:03:01,074

Yeah, I love it.

:

01:03:01,074 --> 01:03:02,574

I would underscore that also.

:

01:03:03,084 --> 01:03:06,163

Alright, so Jennifer Kain,

Kumos thank you so much.

:

01:03:06,163 --> 01:03:11,294

Once again, I'm gonna, yeah, like I said

before, put the links to veeva vale.com

:

01:03:11,444 --> 01:03:15,344

and the other information that we've

talked about, the research, the white

:

01:03:15,344 --> 01:03:19,444

paper information relating to the

United Nations program that we've talked

:

01:03:19,444 --> 01:03:20,854

about, that you've been involved with.

:

01:03:21,244 --> 01:03:25,264

And yeah, just would really encourage

viewers and listeners to check out your

:

01:03:25,264 --> 01:03:30,934

content and reach out to to you, your

team, if they have any questions or

:

01:03:30,934 --> 01:03:35,494

interested in starting a conversation

to get some help and some insight

:

01:03:35,494 --> 01:03:36,934

from all that you have to offer.

:

01:03:37,294 --> 01:03:37,924

Fantastic.

:

01:03:37,924 --> 01:03:43,234

So again, Jennifer, thanks so much for

showing us that the future of aging

:

01:03:43,234 --> 01:03:45,844

doesn't have to be sterile or lonely.

:

01:03:45,844 --> 01:03:50,434

It can be full of play and the importance

of dignity and human connection.

:

01:03:50,894 --> 01:03:56,413

Yeah, I'll definitely be watching closely

to, yeah, to just see how your work

:

01:03:56,413 --> 01:04:00,044

and your initiatives are gonna continue

to reshape how we think about aging.

:

01:04:00,614 --> 01:04:05,704

And yeah that, as you say, the yes and

mindset, I think that's, these important

:

01:04:05,704 --> 01:04:12,104

but simple tools are, gonna be, I can

just see how it's has the power to help

:

01:04:12,104 --> 01:04:16,574

to give people that agency to be able

to, in, in some ways reinvent their

:

01:04:16,574 --> 01:04:22,004

lives, but to maintain their autonomy

and self-control and agency over time.

:

01:04:22,004 --> 01:04:23,804

So thanks again for joining us today.

:

01:04:24,494 --> 01:04:24,949

Jennifer: Thanks, Michael.

:

01:04:25,739 --> 01:04:26,029

Mike: Okay.

:

01:04:26,179 --> 01:04:26,869

Bye-bye now.

:

01:04:28,969 --> 01:04:29,299

Great.

:

01:04:29,299 --> 01:04:30,439

Thanks so much, Jennifer.

:

01:04:30,439 --> 01:04:31,279

Really appreciate it.

:

01:04:31,674 --> 01:04:32,869

Jennifer: Five, high five.

:

01:04:32,869 --> 01:04:33,724

That was so good.

:

01:04:33,874 --> 01:04:34,364

Awesome.

:

01:04:34,504 --> 01:04:37,788

Oh my gosh, you're such

a fantastic interviewer.

:

01:04:37,879 --> 01:04:38,269

Mike: Thank you.

:

01:04:38,269 --> 01:04:39,799

That's, thanks you, that was great.

:

01:04:39,799 --> 01:04:41,239

I think you made it really easy for me.

:

01:04:41,239 --> 01:04:43,820

I think it flowed really well, and

so yeah, we were, that was good.

:

01:04:43,984 --> 01:04:44,334

Thank

:

01:04:44,334 --> 01:04:44,413

Jennifer: you.

:

01:04:44,864 --> 01:04:48,419

I really, I said it in the interview

and I really truly meant it.

:

01:04:48,419 --> 01:04:50,609

You have such a calming presence.

:

01:04:51,209 --> 01:04:51,389

Mike: Oh, good.

:

01:04:51,389 --> 01:04:51,538

Okay, great.

:

01:04:51,538 --> 01:04:51,629

Your

:

01:04:51,629 --> 01:04:55,829

Jennifer: voice is just like velvet,

again, like I'm a huge Broadway nut, but

:

01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:59,639

I've often said Jonathan Groff if is,

if his voice was a material that would

:

01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:01,349

be velvet, like I have the same quality.

:

01:05:01,349 --> 01:05:03,179

Like your voice is like velvet.

:

01:05:03,179 --> 01:05:05,369

It's very calming, very soothing,

:

01:05:05,609 --> 01:05:05,879

Mike: nice and

:

01:05:06,149 --> 01:05:07,288

Jennifer: very welcoming.

:

01:05:07,319 --> 01:05:08,939

And your questions are great.

:

01:05:08,939 --> 01:05:11,249

Thank you for doing the

great research that you did.

:

01:05:11,249 --> 01:05:11,339

Sure.

:

01:05:11,639 --> 01:05:15,149

'cause it also made the conversation

really flow really simply and easily.

:

01:05:15,199 --> 01:05:15,409

Awesome.

:

01:05:15,649 --> 01:05:16,399

Mike: Thanks so much.

:

01:05:16,399 --> 01:05:17,029

Really appreciate it.

:

01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:20,599

It's just a delight to meet you and all

the best with this, I think it's so great.

:

01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:23,089

It's so encouraging and really impressive.

:

01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:23,749

Like I'm, yeah.

:

01:05:23,929 --> 01:05:27,538

'cause I think part of why, I was having

this conversation with an entrepreneur

:

01:05:27,538 --> 01:05:31,315

friend of mine in the States, and I,

I I ask him questions about this kind

:

01:05:31,315 --> 01:05:35,015

of thing because, on the clinical

side you're in this algorithm based

:

01:05:35,015 --> 01:05:36,904

kind of practice, and that's fine.

:

01:05:36,904 --> 01:05:37,915

It serves its purpose.

:

01:05:37,915 --> 01:05:41,904

But part of, I think a lot of clinicians

feel a little bit stifled, right?

:

01:05:41,904 --> 01:05:45,505

In terms of you can't innovate so

much because, you're your regulatory

:

01:05:45,505 --> 01:05:48,105

body is gonna say, Hey, stay

within your lane, kind of thing.

:

01:05:48,105 --> 01:05:52,035

So to get inspiration from someone like

you in terms of thinking outside the

:

01:05:52,035 --> 01:05:56,385

box and being innovative, it just it's

really, it's, yeah, just, it's inspiring.

:

01:05:56,385 --> 01:05:57,105

So Thank you.

:

01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:58,020

Jennifer: Thank you.

:

01:05:58,020 --> 01:06:01,779

And I I think what I see right now,

especially being lumped in with a lot of

:

01:06:01,779 --> 01:06:08,110

health tech people, health AI people, is

that it's, there's so much enthusiasm and

:

01:06:08,890 --> 01:06:11,140

scrambling towards making these solutions,

:

01:06:11,460 --> 01:06:15,290

I think what's forgotten is just the

human element is you can create the most

:

01:06:15,290 --> 01:06:22,460

incredible algorithm, the most incredible

tool, but where it's gonna fail is if that

:

01:06:22,460 --> 01:06:28,940

nurse or if that physician has five steps

in the middle of a night to access your.

:

01:06:29,590 --> 01:06:36,550

App, your protocol, whatever, it's not

going to win over a piece of paper or

:

01:06:36,550 --> 01:06:39,070

whatever legacy system is that they know.

:

01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:43,320

So the again, we think about like

health tech and if that's used towards

:

01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,650

neuroscience, if it's used to manage

aging of, it's used to manage it, manage

:

01:06:46,740 --> 01:06:51,060

health in general or workflow inside a

healthcare system or hospital sys system.

:

01:06:51,420 --> 01:06:54,720

The competition isn't the other

apps or the other algorithms.

:

01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,580

The competition is a status quo.

:

01:06:56,820 --> 01:06:58,500

'cause that's what's known and easy.

:

01:06:58,830 --> 01:07:02,850

And I think that's where we are

getting a lot of kind of waste in the

:

01:07:02,850 --> 01:07:08,100

system, is that people are rushing to

solve problems without understanding

:

01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:11,220

what their customer's trying to,

how their customer navigates.

:

01:07:11,550 --> 01:07:16,050

So that's why I put so much emphasis

on the ethnography because that's a

:

01:07:16,050 --> 01:07:20,310

breakthrough to be able to understand

your customers to that level of detail.

:

01:07:20,310 --> 01:07:20,370

Yeah.

:

01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,220

I wish more innovators would do the same.

:

01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:28,950

So we're just hoping, we, we grow,

we, one of the metrics that we had in

:

01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:32,820

addition to obviously the financial

metrics, but if we could say, if we

:

01:07:32,820 --> 01:07:35,520

could hear from a customer, I don't

know what I'd do without Veva valet.

:

01:07:36,610 --> 01:07:42,100

I couldn't have, I couldn't have modified

my home to stay safe, or I couldn't

:

01:07:42,100 --> 01:07:47,350

have gotten my meals, or I couldn't have

got to my surgery today without you.

:

01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:51,610

That's the reason we are here doing

this and that's what we hear every day.

:

01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:53,440

So we're so grateful for that.

:

01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:55,550

We just hope we can get

the money into survive.

:

01:07:58,355 --> 01:07:59,615

We are raising money.

:

01:07:59,945 --> 01:08:03,185

We've raised already 3 million, so

we're raise, we're raising more.

:

01:08:04,654 --> 01:08:04,745

Mike: Good.

:

01:08:05,765 --> 01:08:06,365

Absolutely.

:

01:08:06,395 --> 01:08:06,725

Okay.

:

01:08:06,725 --> 01:08:07,265

All the best.

:

01:08:07,265 --> 01:08:07,955

Good luck with everything.

:

01:08:08,885 --> 01:08:09,154

Jennifer: Thank you.

:

01:08:09,450 --> 01:08:10,340

Wonderful weekend.

:

01:08:10,340 --> 01:08:10,779

Thanks a lot.

:

01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:11,460

Thanks

:

01:08:11,460 --> 01:08:11,620

Mike: a lot.

:

01:08:11,690 --> 01:08:12,180

Okay, bye.

:

01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:16,479

That was such a great conversation

with Jennifer Cain Birkmose.

:

01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,700

I just wanted to, again, thank

you for joining me today on

:

01:08:19,700 --> 01:08:21,470

the Neurostimulation Podcast.

:

01:08:21,740 --> 01:08:24,770

And if you found this episode

interesting, don't forget to like

:

01:08:24,770 --> 01:08:26,390

and subscribe to the podcast.

:

01:08:26,660 --> 01:08:29,210

It really is the best way to

make sure that you never miss an

:

01:08:29,210 --> 01:08:33,080

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more curious minds like yours.

:

01:08:33,710 --> 01:08:37,880

Also, if you think that this episode might

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:

01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,340

or a colleague, please share it with them.

:

01:08:40,984 --> 01:08:43,925

This kind of knowledge, especially

when it relates to important

:

01:08:43,925 --> 01:08:45,635

aspects like senior's care.

:

01:08:45,875 --> 01:08:48,694

It really is better when it's

shared broadly and you never

:

01:08:48,694 --> 01:08:52,055

know who else might find this

information helpful or inspiring.

:

01:08:52,654 --> 01:08:57,455

For more details about Jennifer's

offerings and content, please

:

01:08:57,455 --> 01:08:58,795

do check out her links.

:

01:08:58,795 --> 01:09:03,745

Links to her information in the show notes

below, and I've added as much as I can.

:

01:09:03,745 --> 01:09:07,375

You'll find everything that you need

to dive deeper into this topic, and

:

01:09:07,375 --> 01:09:08,725

I would love to hear your thoughts.

:

01:09:08,725 --> 01:09:13,434

So please join the conversation in the

comment section or reach out to us on

:

01:09:13,434 --> 01:09:18,715

social media, your questions, ideas,

feedback, make this podcast better.

:

01:09:19,135 --> 01:09:21,444

Finally, don't forget to

tune into the next episode.

:

01:09:21,684 --> 01:09:25,045

It's going to be another exciting journey

into the cutting edge of neuroscience

:

01:09:25,045 --> 01:09:26,635

and clinical neurostimulation.

:

01:09:27,115 --> 01:09:28,315

Thanks again for listening.

:

01:09:28,465 --> 01:09:32,065

I really appreciate your time,

your attention, and your interest.

:

01:09:32,305 --> 01:09:37,075

Take care, stay well, and I'll see you

next time on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

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The Neurostimulation Podcast
Welcome to The Neurostimulation Podcast, your go-to source for the latest in clinical neurostimulation! Here, we dive deep into the revolutionary techniques that are shaping the future of health care.

Whether you're a healthcare professional, a student, or simply passionate about neuroscience, this podcast will keep you informed, inspired, and connected with the evolving world of neurostimulation.

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About your host

Profile picture for Michael Passmore

Michael Passmore

Dr. Michael Passmore is a psychiatrist based in Vancouver, BC, with expertise in neurostimulation therapies. Having completed specialized training in multiple neurostimulation modalities, including electroconvulsive therapy at Duke University and transcranial magnetic stimulation at Harvard University, Dr. Passmore brings a robust clinical and academic background to his practice. Formerly the head of the neurostimulation program in the department of Psychiatry at Providence Health Care, Dr. Passmore now serves as a clinical associate professor at the University of British Columbia’s Department of Psychiatry. From his clinic, ZipStim Neurostimulation (zipstim.com), Dr. Passmore offers private, physician-supervised, home-based transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) treatments tailored to clients across Canada.​